Looking for options
We are thinking about getting another server for new projects in the works.
Currently we are using CentOS and it works great, so in all logic the next server will also use the same OS.
Being curious and a bit geeky, I am still looking at options. I used Solaris a long time ago and I came across posts about how Solaris is now open source, etc and I thought I’d have a look at it.
Being curious and a bit geeky, I am still looking at options. I used Solaris a long time ago and I came across posts about how Solaris is now open source, etc and I thought I’d have a look at it.
Sun’s web site is broken
A simple picture is worth a thousand words.
The download page opens a tab on top, which redirects you to the download page, which opens another tab on top, etc. Hours of fun if you don’t get bored quickly by repetition.
Sun doesn’t want new users
I decided to contact the online support and it was sooo stupid, I had to post the log:
This concluded the evaluation: if they can not even provide a working web site and a support that cares, we will not use their products. I encourage people to follow the same route.
| Please wait while we find an agent to assist you. You have been connected to Desiree Fowler. | |
| Desiree Fowler | Welcome to sales support for Sun Microsystems, how may I help you? |
| Thomas | Hi, I’m trying to dl solaris from your website, but it doesn’t work: it goes in a circular loop on the web site, but no dl link |
| Desiree Fowler | For a limited time, Sun is offering a free DVD software kit that includes the following Solaris 10 Operating System SPARC and x86 Platforms Developer Tools Sun Studio 11 Java Studio Creator 2 Update 1 Java Studio Enterprise 8 NetBeans 5.0 You can find it at this site http://www2.sun.de/dc/forms/reg_us_2211_391.jsp If you have any questions about the offer or the status of your order please send email to:solarisdvd@sun.com |
| Please check out this page for questions pertaining to the downloading of Solaris. http://www.sun.com/download/faq.xml | |
| Thomas | I have the ‘my downloads’ bar on top, then when I click on solaris dvd, it says that the free products are somewhere else, then I navigate to solaris again and then get a second bar on top. you can accumulate download bars on top of the browser by looping around |
| Desiree Fowler | http://www.sun.com/software/solaris/ |
| Thomas | yes, that’s what I followed and then it opens the bar on top called ‘my downloads’ |
| I click on solaris x64/x86 | |
| dvd | |
| Desiree Fowler | Please contact Tech Support 800-872-4786 |
| Thomas | then it tells me the free products are now somewhere else |
| isn’t there just a page with the link? | |
| Desiree Fowler | http://www.sun.com/software/solaris/ |
| Thomas | there is no link on that page; that’s what I’m trying to explain: following the download links from that page DOES NOT work |
| can you try to follow the links to see what I mean? | |
| u there? | |
| Desiree Fowler | yes |
| Thomas | do you see the problem I’m describing? |
| Desiree Fowler | Please contact Tech Support 800-872-4786 |
| This is a how to guide that instructs users unfamiliar with Solaris 10 installation on how to install the Solaris 10 OS on a Sun supported x64 or x86 system. | |
| Please check out this page for questions pertaining to the downloading of Solaris. http://www.sun.com/download/faq.xml | |
| Thomas | I need to call a phone number to get a link? |
| Desiree Fowler | This should help you. |
| Thomas | I am not talking about installation, I am telling you the download link is broken! |
| reading the faq is not going to fix your link | |
| Desiree Fowler | I’m sorry Sir, you will need to contact Tech Support 800-872-4786 |
| Thomas | can you just open a browser and follow the link you told me to follow and then see that it doesn’t work? |
| well, you didn’t answer my question: how would calling support / reading a faq fix the link on your site? | |
| Desiree Fowler | I’m sorry Sir, this is the only information that I have at this time. I’m in Pre Sales and have limited resources. |
| Thomas | so there’s no online support about issues as simple as downloading a file? - that’s not very encouraging but I think this will conclude my evaluation then. |
| Desiree Fowler | Thank you for dropping by, Thomas, and have a great day! |
This concluded the evaluation: if they can not even provide a working web site and a support that cares, we will not use their products. I encourage people to follow the same route.
dude, I have used Sun's download sites at least once a week for the past several years.. and NEVER seen that !!... WOW.. you must be using some flaky OS or more likely a broken browser revision.. (possibly one that doesn't support native JAVA ?)
I've used Windows 2000, NT, XP, XP Pro, Vista, and All versions of Solaris (which is what's on my laptop now).. never with a browser problem like that.. (though Internet exploder does have a lot of bugs with past versions, not to mention security holes !!)
Either way, CentOS might work for you, but I would steer away to something that has a future ahead of it with a greater customer and support base.. Solaris is definitely where all the momentum seems to be going, and with all the financials and Telco's running Solaris (not to mention Government agencies, etc..) that's where I'd place my production OS... Linux is great, until you need to get a bug fixed.. and which Linux.. now they're all different.. Solaris support is cheaper than RedHat support anyway.. so that's what I have to recommend having used it in production for several years.. and no other OS honestly is close to the features and availability it offers.
Cheers ! and good luck with your browser issues !
I'm having this issue right now, both in Firefox and IE on Windows.
It's not an issue with his browser.
To cure this issue:
1 Log out of your sun account.
2 Close all browsers to end all sessions.
3 Open your browser and go back to the download site.
4 Log in.
5. Download your software. It should work. (should....)
I understand the frustration with download pages and web customer service, but she did point you to a download issue FAQ. Did you look at that? The first item in the FAQ offers several things to consider if you are having a download issue. I would be interested to know if any of those solved your problem. For the record, I tried the download site from Firefox and Opera and it worked just fine.
Perhaps you got to a support person who was having a bad day? To discard a technology as highly regarded as Solaris based on a particular web page issue and one "interesting" exchange about the web page problem and not a problem with Solaris, (with a pre-sales Soalris support rep mind you) seems a bit extreme.
Not advocating Solaris or anything, just curious to see if the CS rep's FAQ suggestion would have helped or not.
Thomas,
Sorry, that's rather hideous and I have no idea how you got into that loop. Just tested our download myself with Firefox, IE, and Mozilla and I didn't end up in the same state; and made sure I tested it both off our network and on it. Can you send me (dan.roberts@sun.com) any details on your configuration (Browser, version number, OS) so I can see if we replicate and fix? Would be happy to send you a free media kit as well if you want to send me your address.
Dan Roberts
Dir of Solaris Product Mktg
I just followed the same steps and I get right to the download. I've done it several times with firefox and I just did it with IE. You don't have to use the java downloader you can use the normal downloader provided with whichever browser you use. The provided one just helps out if you are on a slow connection or you loose connection. It can restart from the point it became broken.
I've definitely ordered a few CDs from them as well as downloaded many files (using Firefox) from them. They definitely don't tailor to IE and I definitely never used the Java downloader. The support I have no argument against; I don't know anything about that. But I would have to say, I don't understand why you ran into the problems you did. It should have worked fine.
I just tried it. I can't say I had the same problems. Fairly straightforward, if annoying.
I clicked on "Get it Now" from here: http://www.sun.com/software/solaris/get.jsp
Choose from CD/DVD
Had to register (annoying, but understandable)
Then had to complete a survey of sorts where I had to input the number of systems I had with Solaris and number of licenses being requested. That whole step needs to be removed.
Lastly, they seem to use a Java app for downloading. I understand wanting to promote your tools (Java) but I'm not a big fan - give me an ftp link or a straight up http download. Torrents would be an even better option, but bypasses the need for registration, etc
I bet the problem you encountered is either Opera or Java related.
I also suspect that you were chatting with a bot. With the exception of a misspelling, those replies were inhuman.
I agree with you that the responses by customer support were pathetic, at best.
HOWever, you should have had the presence of mind to actually look through the FAQ that she presented you with, wherein you would have seen the suggestion to use a modern browser like Mozilla/FireFox/etc. and you might have then tumbled to the fact that your version of Opera *might* have been the issue.
I'm not defending the bot you talked to, just pointing out that you refused to do what was suggested, and the issue may very well have been covered in there, as Opera was likely the problem.
It was at the office; I'll go back there tonight and get the version number. I used Opera and IE. Opera was latest, and IE I'm not sure, I just use it when Opera doesn't work somewhere.
What ticked me off was the 'not care / not listen' of the customer support; especially since we're looking at setting up another server for a commercial project so it was not to just toy around.
I will post the info when I get back to the office and it would be cool if anyone with the same versions can give it a try.
You're using Opera - does Sun even support Opera for their web sites? And this is what's convincing you to use Solaris - whether they support Opera?
No, it's whether they listen when you talk to support.
It is actually, in my position, one of the biggest factors in making decisions nowadays.
For example one might criticize Microsoft, but I worked with the Xbox and always had instant competent technical support (as a developer, I'm sure as a user that's another story). It was one of the best.. Sony was another story.
In this case, yes, it is one rep and probably a browser / network issue, but if I go ahead with Solaris, then I need to make sure that reps will actually listen (not just to keywords, listen to the actual text) and care.
I'm the program manager at Sun for the folks who staff these live chat lines and I'll be the first to admit that we blew this one royally. There's nothing I can say to defend how the chat was handled.
OK - maybe I'll try a little. The rep did (correctly) make an effort to direct you to a page for obtaining a free DVD. Unfortunately the link in her canned response was old and expired. So even when she had the right intention, the execution was flawed.
But the obvious lack of empathy and attentiveness to your plight is painful to see. I could almost see you banging your head on the keyboard as she wished you a 'good day!'
We clearly have a lot to improve in our training of these reps and in the way they escalate and hand off customer sat issues. That effort has already begun. I won't bore you with the details, but suffice to say that I've had a very interesting day. At times it seemed that *everyone* at Sun was listening - and I do mean everyone.
And that's a very good thing. You got our attention and we are fixing the problem. I'm sorry you had to experience this, but in the long run we will benefit - as will those who come after you.
One last comment. It's not meant as a defense or excuse, but the rep was correct in stating that her role is pre-sales -- not customer support. Notice that the text above the 'Chat Now' link says 'Before You Buy' -- and that the link is not on the download page itself (where you had trouble), but on the earlier pages where you decide exactly what it is you are going to download - and whether you want a support plan or training, etc.
That doesn't mean she shouldn't be able to redirect you to the right resources - and handle your inquiry in a much more professional manner -- but I want to be clear that you were not chatting with a Sun tech support rep. Her lack of knowledge of the Solaris download process should not be seen as a reflection on Sun's customer support teams. They had nothing to do with this....!
Please feel free to contact me directly with any further questions or comments. And if you can see your way past this snafu to give Solaris another shot, I think you'll find it worth your while.
thanks,
Neal Amsden
neal.amsden@sun.com